May 28, 2026 · 35 min
SamParr
Founder of The Hustle (sold to HubSpot), co-host of My First Million, and founder of Hampton
Sam Parr: How to Build a $20M Empire Without Destroying Your Marriage
In this episode
Today I'm talking to Sam Parr, Co-Founder of Hampton and Founder of The Hustle, and co-host of My First Million. Sam built The Hustle to over 1.5 million subscribers, sold it for more than $20 million, and now runs one of the most exclusive founder communities in the world. Sam is a Midwestern kid turned serial entrepreneur: from running a hot dog stand to building a media empire to co-hosting My First Million, one of the biggest business podcasts out there. He's also one of the most refreshingly honest people I've ever talked to about money, marriage, and what it actually takes to build a life you're proud of. We go deep on relationships, ambition, and what it means to commit — to a partner, to a company, to a version of yourself you haven't become yet.
- Why he and his wife had a "co-founder conversation" six months into dating and how it changed everything
- What billionaires all agree on about luck that most people starting out don't want to hear
- His controversial take: overnight successes are real — and sometimes you should quit faster
- How he uses negative visualization to stay grateful
Chapters
- Intro
- When Money Doesn't Feel Real
- Why My Wife Bet on Me
- Run Your Marriage Like a Startup
- Luck Is Real
- Commit Then Figure It Out
- Imagine the Worst, Feel Grateful
- 40 Hours Can Make You Rich
- Am I a One-Hit Wonder?
- How to Make Anyone Open Up
About the guest
Full transcript
LubaHi everyone, we're here in Upper West Side, in New York City, a beautiful residential neighborhood, and I'm on my way to meet Sam Parr. Sam is a really incredible serial entrepreneur and a podcast host. He's built The Hustle that he sold for over $20 million to HubSpot. He's the co-host of My First Million, a podcast with millions of downloads, and now he's the founder of Hampton, a founder community for digital-first founders with over $3 million in revenue.
Sam and I, I think, are going to have a really rich conversation where we'll talk about his definition of success, how he's built a few successful businesses, how he's approaching his business now, how he's staying so balanced, how he's met his life partner. And I hope you guys enjoy this conversation. Let me know what you think, and let's get to it.
Okay, wait. So tell me, have you always been so balanced?
SamHave I? No. No, I've not been. No, I've not always been balanced. I think I got balanced maybe when I was, like, 30 years old.
LubaOkay.
SamProbably after selling my company, I got a little more balanced, but I've always been, like, a homebody. But no, I've not always been balanced.
LubaSo what has been that transition from being, you know, hustling, I guess, all the time to being more balanced?
SamWell, I think about work and, like, progress all the time. So I don't know if I'm balanced in my brain, but frankly, like, selling the company allowed me to have a lot more space, and also just maturity. That helped a lot.
LubaSo you sold The Hustle and got over $20 million in profit. Walk me through the first 72 hours once the wire hit your bank.
SamYou know what's funny is, I use Monarch Money now, but before, I was— I forget what I was using, but I used this thing to, like, track my finances. The six months before I sold the company, I used, like, this finance app where I manually put in that much money into my account. So I, like, looked at it every day, and I thought that, like, the money was already there. So I got really used to it. Does that make sense?
LubaOkay. So you put the $20 million yourself?
SamNo, I didn't put that much. I put less, but, like, I put money in there 'cause I didn't get all of that up front. Like, I got a bunch of—
LubaChunks.
SamI got a whole bunch up front, and then I got a bunch of HubSpot stock.
LubaGot it.
SamAnd then I got paid a little bit, like, for some other stuff, like, throughout the next two years. And you worked at Airbnb, right?
LubaYes, I did. Yeah.
SamAirbnb went public— my wife worked at Airbnb, and it went public in—
Luba2020.
SamLike—
LubaYeah, end of 2020. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SamAnd then I sold my company four months later.
LubaOh, wow. So you guys both got this paycheck.
SamYeah, it was like a pretty life-changing moment. Like, that three months, like, changed our lives significantly.
LubaSo I have friends, a couple who both worked at Coinbase, and obviously Coinbase had a huge IPO at the same time. And their life changed in kind of a— well, obviously in a very drastic way, but they were kind of lost for a little bit because they were like, "Oh, wow, you know, we're so young and we're already rich. Like, what's next?" What was it like for your wife and you?
SamI wasn't lost. No, I didn't feel lost, because I'd been running a company, so, like, the business was making a lot of revenue. It wasn't making a ton of profit, but it was making good profit. And so, like, I had money, just not in the form of, like, cash or, like, money that I could spend. Like, I had an asset. Did I get lost? No, I didn't get lost. I guess it didn't feel real to me. It probably took me two years for it to feel real.
LubaYeah. Why did it take so long? Is it because you were kind of ramping up—
SamBecause there's two ways that entrepreneurs tend to make money, I guess. One is— like, my father-in-law owns a moving company, and he started it and ran it for, like, 30 years, and he made, like, this amount of income in year one, and then it went up a little bit in year two. And after, like, 10 or 20 years, it was probably making, like, a lot of income, so he got used to it. With me, I wasn't making a ton of income, and then overnight, like, I got a lump sum. And so, like, that definitely, like, messed with me a little bit.
LubaTell me more about that.
SamLike, I was running the first couple years of my company, I paid myself, like, two grand a month.
LubaOh, wow.
SamYeah, I got—
LubaAnd you were living in San Francisco, I think, right?
SamYeah, because I leased out a four-bedroom apartment for $3,500, and then I got people to come and, like, get a bedroom in each house for $1,000 each. So I got the crappiest room for $500. So I was able to live for, like, nothing.
And then almost all of my meals came from one of two places. They came from the company credit card, so I would eat at the office and just buy lunch for everyone, and that's what I would do. Or my wife— she worked at Airbnb and also worked at Facebook— she would just, like, bring me food home from the company, from the cafeteria.
LubaWhy did your wife believe in you so much?
SamI have no idea. That's a great question. When my wife met me— you guys will have to show a photo of it— I was really fat and overweight, and I didn't look nice, and I—
LubaOh, literally when you guys met at that, like, bar happy hour.
SamYeah, I was, like, pretty, like, disgusting looking. I think I had a mohawk and camouflage pants when I met her, and I was, like, overweight. And I didn't have a lot of money. I just started my company. So I don't know why she believed in me. I think that I was just—
LubaHave you ever asked her?
SamI think that, like, particularly this works for, like, men, but, like, I think women are drawn— I think everyone, but, like, women are drawn to young men who have ambition and passion.
LubaYeah, and a vision, or some sort of vision.
SamYeah, and even if it's, like— it doesn't have to be a monetary one. It could be like, "I am obsessed with, like, being the best painter." And I think that everyone is driven by someone who says, "This is the future that I'm driving towards. I'm going there with or without you, but I would love it if you came with me."
LubaYeah, yeah. I think that for men, the most important thing is to have purpose.
SamYeah.
LubaDo you agree with that?
SamYeah. Just, like, I think that men need a place that they said that they're going to go to, and they need little checkpoints and milestones along the way to let them know that they're getting closer to it.
LubaYeah.
SamThat's what I think.
LubaHow did you know that she was the one?
SamRight away. I think I told her I loved her, like, three weeks in.
LubaOh, wow. Okay. Wait, how did you feel that?
SamHow did I what?
LubaHow did you feel that? Like, why three weeks in?
SamBecause she was very— I mean, I thought she was, like, physically very pretty, so I was very drawn to her. She had, like, a very elegant beauty, a very poised beauty. But I was always attracted to, or was looking for, a woman who was incredibly, like, strong, because I'm a little, like, up and down, and I can be a little crazy, and I needed, like, a steady person. And I think I met her when I was 24 and she was 21 or 22. And I could tell right away that I could be a little nutty and crazy and that she was just going to be able to hold me up and be steady. It was very obvious.
And her parents— my wife's mom is an immigrant, and I love the immigrant mentality, 'cause I was like, "That's, to me, like, kind of the American Dream." And her father and mother now are both entrepreneurs, and so I think she understood. But they're really successful now. Right, like, her mom— like, she sells pillows— a pillow company, and it's a very successful company. And her father has a very successful moving company as well. And they're very successful, but they didn't start that way. And it was really cool to be with a woman who experienced— like, she knew what it was like to have a lot. She knew what it was like to be, like, up and coming. And I thought that was awesome.
LubaThat's awesome. I heard on a podcast about your guys' 4F meeting, the fun, family—
SamFamily, fitness, finance and fun, yeah.
LubaLove it. Okay, tell me more about the meeting. Like, what actually happens? How long is it? What's the agenda?
SamIt's on my calendar right now, actually. So I think I have one next week, towards the end of the month, and we review our finances. And the finance is not necessarily the most important part, but it's sort of, like, the root for— okay, so here's how much we spent. Were you happy with what you spent on? Is there something else that you would like to do? Like, for example, the other day we got $4,000 cash back on a credit card, and it was exciting. We were like, "All right, you get two, I get two. Let's talk about what we want to do." Like, this is exciting.
And it's just, like, a really good way to, like, get in check about, are we being purposeful and mindful? And it sounds, like, trite to talk about spending, because that's not actually what I care about. It's just that that's just, like, one of the tools that we can use to, like, do things that might make us happy, and to be intentional about it.
LubaSo finance is the only topic, or finance is the umbrella and then it's going to—
SamThat's just like— we say it's for finance reasons and we review the numbers, but really it's about family, fitness and fun.
LubaSo do you come in to the meeting with the goals that you've set for yourself the previous month, and then you are like, okay, this is how it actually did?
SamYeah. So we have, like, a monthly budget where I don't care where the money goes to. It's just, did we spend below this? And if we didn't, let's ask ourselves why. And then, like, if we are happy or not happy, we can change the budget if we want. And that's basically what it is. And then I personally set, like, quarterly fitness goals, and I'll, like, fill her in on if I'm achieving those or not. And then she has the same as well. So, like, we hold each other accountable.
LubaObviously.
SamYeah. Like, before she got pregnant— you have to show these videos. Actually, I think she was early in her pregnancy. She wanted to do pull-ups.
LubaOkay.
SamSo it was like, "Are you doing your pull-ups? What's up?" It's that type of thing.
LubaThat's awesome. Actually, my last question on the partner stuff: what's the secret to a happy, successful, supportive, full of respect relationship?
SamWell, first of all, this is going to sound like an insult, or this is going to sound, like, really cold, but we have this friend named Logan.
LubaIs it Logan Ury?
SamYeah.
LubaI know Logan.
SamI love Logan. So Logan was my wife's best friend, and I've become very, very close with her as well. She has this book called *How Not to Die Alone*.
LubaYeah, I love the book.
SamAnd she's got part of the book where it's called, like, "F the Spark," which is, like, basically this idea that everyone thinks that when you meet someone, it should be love at first sight, you should have this spark. And she says no, that's not true, and I totally agree with her.
And I have a bunch of friends who— most of my best friends are Indian, and their parents were arranged, and I always thought that was fascinating. And I've always kind of aligned with that in a weird kind of way. And what I mean by that is, I think that with my wife and I, at a very early stage, we said, yes, we love each other, yes, we're attracted to each other, but also, we have this sort of, like, agreement. Like, we're going to do life together, and we are committed to each other, and it's like a binding contract that literally means till death do us part. And I think that we are very explicit about that, which is, like, we will make it work no matter what. And I think having that, like, agreement is actually quite good.
And I did that with my co-founder, by the way, too. So, like, basically my wife and I, we outlined— we're like, all right, so six months in to us dating, we said, this looks like it's going to, like, potentially end in marriage. Like, we don't intend to break up. Things are going well. And so, like, what do you want your life to look like when you're 30 or 40 or 50? And I said the same, and I was like, what values do you want to live by? How many kids do you want to have? Where do you want to live? What type of lifestyle do you want? And then I said what I wanted, and we're like, okay, this, like, aligns. This is pretty good. And it was sort of like— this sounds way colder than it is, but it's almost like a handshake, where it's like, we agree. We agree to this.
LubaYeah, I love that, because as you said, with co-founders, that's what you do when you start a company. You talk about, what exit do you want? How much do you want to do that?
SamExactly. So most people don't do that because they're scared of the uncomfortability of the conversation, but it's almost, like, exciting.
LubaLet's see how we can be a part of each other's future.
Sam110%. So my co-founder and I did this as well, 'cause it worked out so good with my marriage. Where we, like, said, like, what do you want your day-to-day to look like? What are you willing to give up? What are you unwilling to give up? And what would success look like?
LubaYeah. How did you know to ask these questions and have that type of conversation at such a young age?
SamI've always been like that. So, like, I think I read this book called— Napoleon Hill, *Think and Grow Rich*. And, like, he's a little bit of a charlatan, but the book had a lot of good topics, and this idea of, like, writing down goals. So I've always been, like, super interested in writing down— there's an MFM listener who just said hi— I've always been really good about writing down goals and being very specific. That says, in five years, this is where I want to go, and this is what I want to have, and just reverse engineer that. I've always done that. It's very effective.
LubaYeah, I love Napoleon Hill's *Think and Grow Rich*. I think I saw your guys' excerpt on Twitter, or on X, with Shaan, that, okay, the guy actually made up a bunch of— in the—
SamYeah, he made up everything, but that's okay.
LubaThat's fine. The advice is great.
SamYou can like the art and not the artist.
LubaYeah. So on MFM, you've interviewed hundreds of rich people. What's one trait—
SamI have probably interviewed a lot of broke people. I think we've interviewed a bunch of criminals. We've interviewed all types of people.
LubaThat's great. It's good to have a range.
SamYeah.
LubaWhat's one trait amongst the successful people that they all share that no one really talks about?
SamA huge percentage of the epically successful people— I'm talking billionaires, generally speaking— they will acknowledge how important luck is. And I don't think that a lot of people starting out, myself included, acknowledge— you know, you think you get to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and I think that's a really good attitude to have, but the majority of epically successful people agree that luck played a huge part in their success. I didn't buy into that until I started talking to some of these people, and then I also had a little bit of success myself. But luck is real, I think.
LubaSo tell me more about how do you think about luck? 'Cause there is the rational point of, like, you increase your surface area of bets, and then you prepare for the lucky moment, do you think?
SamYeah.
LubaBut there's also the more spiritual way of thinking about luck.
SamWell, I think there's, like, macro luck. So, like, I was born in a really good area. I was born to parents that were emotionally supportive. I looked the way I do, and I was born in America. Like, there's that. But I think that, like— so when COVID happened, a lot of people suffered. I crushed it. Yeah, I loved COVID. Like, COVID was so good to me. Sometimes I feel guilt, but, like, our business took off.
I sold my company during COVID. Two weeks or a week after I sold my company, the CEO of HubSpot got into a life-threatening accident where he almost died. And had that happened two weeks before I sold my company, would that deal still have happened? I don't know. You know what I mean? And I had nothing to do with either of those things, COVID or him almost dying, but I benefited from them. And that's sort of like— I can't— yeah, and that's crazy. And there's been so many times where one introduction, one email, like, one post that I've made has, like, changed everything.
LubaSo what's your advice for someone who wants to increase their surface level area of luck?
SamI think if you're young and not successful yet, or you're still coming up, I believe that quantity leads to quality. So you need lots and lots and lots of output. And you need to have lots of output for a very long time.
LubaYeah, I think one thing that people lack, myself included, is patience, 'cause I think right now we're living in such a short-term rewards type of world that it feels like, "Oh my God, you know, if the thing is not working immediately or in a very short period of time—" but then you see other people come up because they're sharing their highlight reel— "maybe I should move on to do something else."
SamYeah, I think it's always been that way. I think there's this great book by Robert Greene called *Human Nature*.
LubaYeah. Okay.
SamI just think that, like, humans have always been the same. So I actually strongly disagree when people say, "Well, in today's age, it's different." I don't think it's ever different. Yeah, it's hard to be patient. I mean, that's what separates the winners and the losers, is the ability to have grit.
LubaSo on patience and reinventing yourself: you have reinvented yourself so many times, you know, from the roommate app, The Hustle, to Hampton. How do you keep your identity small? Yeah, do you keep your identity small?
SamThat's an interesting question. I would say that a lot of people who know me closely would say that I do have a big ego at times. But then other people will say that— I think I have, like, a dichotomy where I think I'm — and I think I'm nothing and I'm a nobody, and, like, what I think is always wrong. Like, I have this, like, very self-deprecating attitude. So I think it's like I have both.
LubaThat's amazing. And how do you cultivate patience?
SamI don't know. I mean, I struggle with it, too. I don't know. The way that I tend to do things is that when I make decisions and I go all in on them, I tend to make the decision in such a way where it's an irreversible decision.
LubaYeah.
SamSo, for example, if I want to start a company, I tend to immediately hire people.
LubaOh, I see. So that it's much harder to pull out.
SamThat's why I can't back out.
LubaBut what if you started the wrong company?
SamThen you just make it work. That's kind of— I tend to kind of—
LubaWell, what if you hate it?
SamI don't know. I just think that, like, you do it anyway.
LubaI see.
SamThat's just kind of, like, my Midwestern attitude of, like—
LubaIf you committed, you stay committed.
SamYeah. Like, my company Hampton right now is hard. It is so hard, what we do. And there's so many times that I've interviewed someone and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, they grew their company to, like, 3 billion in three years." And, like, maybe the smart thing to do is to, like, fail and go and do something else, but that's just not how I think about things. I just think, like, you commit, and you die or fail. I don't know. Like, you just do it.
LubaDo you think there is a better or worse way to make decisions in life, or is this, like, ultimately a better way?
SamI think the right way— I think I have seen more people have success quitting something that is only mediocre and going to something— like, a controversial opinion I have is, like, I actually do think that overnight successes are real. Like, I think that you can get something right, and within 6 to 12 months your life is totally changed. And I think that a lot of times people will work on things that are stupid and just mathematically do not get them to where they want to go, and they should quit and start something new.
LubaYeah. Yeah, I've seen that happen a lot of times, where it's like something clicks, and then in six months, in a year, things are really, really working. But then, to your point, I think you really have to take a lot of shots at the goal and increase your output to be able to figure out what's going to click.
SamYeah. And, like, keep in mind, like, I'm figuring all this out as I go, too. I think that, like, generally speaking, I get interviewed and people talk to me about something that I did— like, I sold my company five years ago. I started it when I was 26 or something like that, and, like, within four years, it changed my life. And I joke with my wife, I'm like, the stupid newsletter that I wrote when I was 26 is going to change our great-grandchildren's lives. And, like, one would argue I didn't have that much patience. And I do think I got really lucky.
LubaHow do you think about not being bored with Hampton, given that now you're kind of like, I'm committed to this for life? How do I deal with it? Do you ever get bored?
SamI've never asked myself that question.
LubaOkay. You're just like, keep doing. No time for rumination and reflecting on, am I bored, am I not bored? The reason why I'm asking that—
SamI've never actually thought about that. I guess I just— I do find joy in, like, the smallest things. Like, we're building a little media team in the company, and, like, I get joy with that. I think that I look at company building as just, like, a playground to me, of, like, just creating things that are interesting to me. So I've never thought about that.
LubaI love that, actually. I feel like it's oftentimes a useless question, 'cause it doesn't really lead to anything, but—
SamI've never— wait, so the question was, how do I deal with getting bored?
LubaYeah. Like, do you ever get bored, or think about, like, oh man, you know, I'm going to be doing the same thing for a long time? 'Cause in your career, you've kind of done different things every few years.
SamYeah. Like, I guess, like, I just think there's always an out. Like, I could just sell it.
LubaYeah, that's—
SamSo I always try to build sellable companies, even if I don't intend to sell them. So I can sell the company today and make a lot of money. Yeah, I've never thought about it.
LubaI think this is one takeaway from this conversation: to not ask yourself a question of, am I bored or not, or am I going to be bored? I think some people— and sometimes I do that— get stuck and, you know, strategizing the future of, like, "Oh, but I'm committing to this for X many years, but what if it's going to get boring?" And usually it's a useless exercise, because it's pulling you—
SamI just kind of think that, like— I do two things. One, I just kind of, like— this sounds horrible— I just say, life sucks, deal with it. And I just— I don't know, I'll be happy on the way, and I'll make fun of myself and my friends as I go.
I think there's this cool thing called negative visualization that I do all the time. It's, like, a Stoic thing, where, like, I imagine the worst things in the world have happened. Like, my children are ill or dying, my wife is dead or dying, I have lost my legs— like, the worst things on Earth, I imagine. And, like, if you close your eyes for five minutes and truly visualize that, it actually starts to feel real. And then you open up your eyes. Like, have you had a dream and you wake up angry from that dream because you're like, "I thought that was real"? You could do that to yourself, and then you wake up and you're like, "Oh, none of that's true."
LubaJoe Hudson talks about the negative— about the—
SamWho's Joe Hudson?
LubaHe's, like, this executive coach that works with a lot of CEOs in the Valley and around the world that are very successful, and one of his things is just talking about emotions and getting rid of the emotion that is creating resistance in your life.
SamCool.
LubaAnd actually, one thing that I remember—
SamIs he famous?
LubaHe's, like, famous in the coaching circles. He has a podcast.
SamI need a coach.
LubaHe's— yeah. I don't know if he's a great coach. It seems like he's a great coach, but I like his concepts.
SamJoe—
LubaSo—
SamHoller at me, Joe. I need a coach.
LubaSo I remember this one story about, like, an argument with his wife that he talks about, where, you know, if you argue with your partner, like, get quiet and then go in separate rooms and then visualize the worst possible thing. Like, let's say the argument does result in a divorce. And then come to the conversation letting go of those feelings, because you've already come to that conclusion that it could be really bad, and then you can have a much more productive conversation.
SamThat's a great idea. Thanks, Joe. See, I already got value from Joe.
LubaSee, maybe Joe is the coach. Okay, so on life sucking, I have a question about grind and suffering. So if—
SamWant to walk that way?
LubaYeah, let's do it.
SamYou guys want to see something cool? I'll show you something. So where we are, where we're filming this, this is the Upper West Side. I'm a huge history fan. So the building that I live in is a building from the Gilded Age. We just walked by a really famous Gilded Age building. Something that I've developed as I've gotten a little bit older is— I've always loved history, but I love surrounding myself with old historical things and beautiful things. I didn't realize how important that was, and it makes my mood significantly better. And this is why I live in this neighborhood: I like seeing all this old stuff.
LubaAnd is it specifically older things? What if the thing is aesthetically pleasing, but it's a little more modern?
SamThat's fine, but I prefer old things. I love things that get better with age. So, for example, I'm wearing denim on denim right now.
LubaYou're a big fan of denim, right?
SamAnd the reason why I love denim is it's one of the few clothing items that I think gets significantly better the more you wear it, the more patina it develops. And so I love things that get better with wear.
LubaAny favorite denim brands, for the audience?
SamYeah, I just bought a pair of Momotaro jeans. The Japanese make amazing denim 'cause they're into craft.
LubaI'm going to Japan in a couple of weeks, and my boyfriend and I are looking for Japanese denim, so thank you for the recommendation.
SamIron Heart, Momotaro are probably the two that I love best.
LubaOkay, love it. Thank you. So, okay, if you want to be successful, does it all have to be grind, negative grind and suffering, or can you do it through a joyous, positive grind?
SamGenerally speaking— okay, so what we're doing here— when people ask this question, I hate giving rules, because I can give you many examples of, like, freak athletes and NBA players who don't follow any rules, and they don't eat healthy, they don't do anything. But generally speaking, if you do these things, I think it will increase the likelihood.
And so I would say that if you are below the age of 40 and you are not successful yet, however you want to define that, working mindlessly long hours will probably increase the odds. There is some point— and generally speaking, if you own a company that's around $5 million, maybe $3 million, maybe $10 million, something where you're able to have, like, a small executive team— generally speaking, at that point, I think working 40 hours a week, 100%, will get you to most places where you want to go.
LubaSo you'd say that working 40 hours a week can still get you to being rich.
SamYeah. Yeah. I think that you have to put the hours in early a lot, but yes, generally speaking, I think that you can work 40 hours a week and be incredibly successful. I can give you many examples.
LubaA bit of a controversial question: do you think the definition of success for men and women are different?
SamThat's interesting. I've never thought about that either. Well, the definition for me, and I'm a man, of success is to have children who love me and want to be around me. That's probably the definition of success. And also that I can create, like, a legacy that, like, lives on. And that, generally speaking, people around me love me and get energy from me. I don't know, is that different than what a woman's definition is?
LubaThat's pretty similar, probably. Given that you put the, you know, the people, the family, et cetera, up top, I think that's pretty true for all human beings across the board.
SamYeah. I definitely, like, have, like, grand aspirations. And I do, like— I get joy out of, like, being in war and, like, dominating, which I guess is, like, a traditional masculine thing. But, like, generally speaking, I prefer, like, harmony and peace.
LubaYeah. That makes sense. What's an insecurity that you still have?
SamOh, how much time you got?
LubaYeah.
SamI mean, we could go on forever. I mean—
LubaOkay, what's the top one that— do you feel like your insecurities are resolvable, or is it kind of like, okay, I've accepted my— okay.
SamI think that, like, if you were to go and take, like, a bunch of LSD and mushrooms, I feel like I could have a breakthrough, but I'm not going to be doing that. What insecurities do I have? Just, like— I fear constantly that I'm a one-hit wonder. I fear constantly that, like—
LubaBut you've already proven to yourself that that's not true.
SamYeah, but you're asking me an emotional question and trying to answer rationally. Like, I don't think rationally in a lot of these situations. So I think that, like, I'm fearful of being a one-hit wonder. I'm fearful of, like, not being relevant. The biggest fear that I have is not fulfilling my potential. I think about that all the time.
LubaSo how do you quantify your potential, to know that you fulfilled it?
SamWell, one way that I do it, which is, like, incredibly toxic and I must stop, but that's company size and net worth.
LubaYeah.
SamYeah. I mean, it's sort of like if I was an athlete and I ran the 100-meter dash, it was like, did I run faster than everyone else or not? And, like, obviously, like, intrinsic rewards are better than external rewards, but, like, I still think about it all the time.
LubaI love your point about being different versus being better. What's your advice to someone who's trying to find their edge?
SamHave you ever heard of this thing called the ikigai?
LubaYes, yes, yes.
SamSo the ikigai, it's, like, this Venn diagram of four circles, and it's like: what the world wants, what you're good at, what you love doing, and what the world wants to pay for. And I think this takes a really long time. I read a book called *Mastery* by Robert Greene that helped me. But I think that figuring out what's in your ikigai— like, what's in the middle; the middle part is called your ikigai— I think figuring that out, and being willing to spend 5 or 10 years to figure that out, that is how you truly can become different and unique.
LubaYou know how some coaches, teachers, spiritual gurus or rational gurus, they talk about trying to remember what you liked doing when you were a kid? Do you believe in that?
SamThat's interesting. Well, I still definitely act like a kid. Like, we're about 15 blocks away from the skate park that I go to every Saturday and Sunday. I go there all the time. I still think I'm a kid. So I guess, yeah, I believe in that. I do a lot of very childish things. Like, you'll see me with my children or with my friends' kids— I am on the floor playing with them all the time.
So yeah, I guess I do think that— like, it was funny. When I was, like, 18 and 25, when I acted the way that I act, people just said I was, like, an immature kid. Now that I'm 36 with, like, two cute little girls, when I act the way that I act, everyone finds it so cool. They're like, "Oh my God, that's so cute." And I'm like, "Where were you guys when I was 18 and I was trying to meet someone?" So yeah, I think it's pretty good to, like, think about that stuff.
LubaYeah, I think it's so important for people to continue cherishing that childishness, because childishness is play. And to the point about, like, oh, can you do things with joy? You can be grinding, but be playing, or seeing your company as a playground.
SamYeah, which is pretty funny, because I often, like, get on myself. I'm like, "I should be more serious about this stuff." But, like—
LubaBut maybe that's your edge, you know? You're not serious.
SamYeah, 'cause I just don't care about— like, one attribute that I have is I sort of just don't give a shit about what people think. And so that's kind of how it helped.
LubaHas that been learned?
SamNo, it was always that way.
LubaAlways the case.
SamYeah, it was always that way.
LubaThat's awesome. What's your life philosophy in one sentence?
SamIf you think you can, if you think you can't, you're probably right.
LubaOkay.
SamAnd I do believe in, like, a lot of woo-woo, like, belief stuff. So check this out. This is the Warsaw Ghetto Memorial. This is one of my favorite parts of New York City.
LubaThis is beautiful.
SamTotally underutilized. It sort of feels like you're, like, in a park in France or something.
LubaWow, this is gorgeous.
SamYeah, it's cool, right?
LubaWait, so the memorial is like— this is the— oh, there's—
SamLike, that is— and then this, like, whole walkway. And, like every 30-something-year-old white guy, I'm obsessed with World War II, and this is, like, you know, a memorial for a World War II incident. So I like it.
LubaI love it. I have one last question. No, actually, two last questions. What's your dream podcast guest?
SamYou know, I get asked this question all the time.
LubaOkay.
SamAnd I've never had a good answer. I don't have a dream podcast guest. I've interviewed all types of people, and the best guests are the ones that I didn't particularly want to have, or I wasn't, like, particularly looking forward to. So, like, we had this lady on named Sarah Moore— and I wasn't even on that podcast, I was sick that day— but she started, like, an egg carton company.
LubaOh, I think I saw a Trends newsletter about it, like in 2020 or something like that.
SamI was like, "I don't want to listen to this." And then she started talking, and it blew my mind. She was, like, the most inspirational person I've ever seen. And then I had my mother-in-law on recently, and I did not want to have her on, because I didn't want to, like, get family involved in work. And I had her on, and it was the most joyful conversation that I'd had in, like, a year. And so the best podcasts that we have done are people that no one knows about. I don't know about them. Like, someone will, like, pitch it to me, and I'm like, "I don't know who this person is." That's been the best podcasts.
LubaPersonal-to-me question: how do you prepare for—
SamWhat's been your favorite MFM episode?
LubaThis was not you— it was Shaan on MFM— but I loved the one that he did with Jesse Itzler.
SamYeah, Jesse's the man.
LubaYeah, Jesse's amazing. And I love how he's so, again, balanced and joyous, and he's crushing it in so many different areas of his life.
SamThere's a handful of people who we've had on the podcast— we jokingly call them, like, the total man.
LubaYeah.
SamThe perfect guy.
LubaHe is the total man.
SamAnd he was it. Yeah, Jesse's on that list.
LubaI feel like we need more examples like Jesse.
SamThere's just not that many of them.
LubaYeah. And actually, 'cause they were talking about 2026 planning, I kind of took on his, like, planning system. So, I don't know, Jesse is maybe in his 50s, so I have about 20 years to catch up to him, but I aspire to be as well balanced and cool as him.
SamThat's a very healthy aspiration.
LubaYeah. How do you prepare for interviews?
SamWay less preparation than you think, in most cases. So typically, one hour before the podcast— now I use Claude, and I have this automated Claude task, and it just does all the research on this person, and I just read that. That's all I do now.
LubaBut what about—
SamBut if the person has a book and the book really interests me, I'll read it the weekend before.
LubaWhat if, like, the conversation is not flowing? So, you know, like, meeting you today, I was like, oh, you know, I've never met you. Sure, I, like, know your vibe online, but there is a certain level of nervousness of, like, is this going to flow? Is this not going to flow? How do you make it flow every time?
SamSometimes it falls flat. Like, we've done a bunch of episodes— not a bunch, but we've done a handful— and we just didn't air them. So it does fall flat. But usually I have ways of breaking people. And so I can give you an example. Like, there's, like, really dumb ways. Like, for example, we had Bryan Johnson— I think we were his first podcast ever. And if you've ever seen Bryan— Bryan now, he's, like, a fun-loving guy, but he comes off uptight a little bit at first. And so I remember when I first met him, he came on, I go, "Bryan, lovely to see you. Shaan and I were just talking about what you look like shirtless. You want to show us right now?" And he was like, "What?" And I was like, "I'm just joking." Like, I just, like, mess around with him.
Or usually I have other ways of doing it. Like, oftentimes, if I want someone to be vulnerable, if I ask them a question, I'll reveal my answer about myself, and then I'll ask them theirs. Or if I want someone to reveal certain numbers— let's say I basically know that they sold their company for around a billion dollars— I'll be like, "What did you sell it for, like 100 million bucks?" And they're like, "No, way more." And I'll be like—
LubaIt's an ego thing.
SamLike, "What, 150?" And, like, so you can, like, mess with people, and they open up.
LubaHas it been learned, or does it come with your playfulness?
SamI learned it when I was in eighth grade. I read a book called *How to Win Friends and Influence People* because I was, like—
LubaCarnegie.
SamYeah. I was, like, desperate to, like, meet guy friends. And then when I was, like, 14 and 15, I wanted a girlfriend, so I read, like, every pickup artist book and how-to-meet-girls book that you could possibly imagine, and I, like, learned some of the stuff from there.
LubaThat's amazing. Well, I want to be mindful of your time. Thank you so much for your time.
SamWell, thank you. It's a great conversation.